Personally, I think a carry gun I can shoot 16 or 18 times before reloading is pretty damn cool.
Well, seeing how I carry a sixgun…if I’m ever attacked by 16 or 18 hoodlums, I’m just going to have to shoot the first six and hope it takes the fight out of the rest.
There is a certain warm fuzzy feeling with regard to capacity isn’t there?
If attacked by many, try to get them lined-up so overpenetration is your friend and you can get two at a time. :-)
I’m curious to see how 10mm would have done.
Remington 180gr JHP 10mm test:
Looks like wall art.
GENERALIZED RANT TO THE ENTIRE GUNTERNET:
Here’s a secret: .38 Spl +P 158gr LSWCHP will reliably expand to .6″ and shoot purt near clean through a man no matter which angle you shoot him from. Anything beyond that is just whistling past the graveyard.
I carry a 1911 because it works, and because I shoot it the best. I carry it in .45 because that’s the caliber that is most reliable in the gun.
Caliber itself is bullshit. Capacity is bullshit. All this “mine holds 18″ rounds stuff is just as much pointless wanking as the “Europellet” nonsense and you all know it as well as I do. This isn’t Mogadishu, and if it were, I’d be carrying a fucking carbine anyway.
Carry a gun that works. Carry the gun you trust and that you shoot best. Period fucking dot.
Jesus. Wept. But I have so lost all my tolerance for the silly gun forum/gun shoppe counter “Glunk” and “Europellet” and so forth pointless chest-beating about make, model, and caliber… Shouldn’t you people be off training someplace?
Would like to see 165 grain .45ACP, and .38 Special and .357 Magnum loads.
.380 and .22LR would be nice as well…
It would look a lot like the .40 S&W test, which looks a lot like the 9mm test, which looks a lot like the .45 test, which looks a lot like the .355 SIG test.
See above. Plus .380.
Shouldn’t you people be off training someplace?
You’re pretty smart for a chick!
So… you’re telling me that if I’m attacked by a homicidal block of ballistic gelatin, it really doesn’t matter what comes out the naughty end of my gun?
Also: am I just a perv, or do those “wound channels” resemble slightly parted lipstick-ed lips?
Thanks for confirming what I’ve long suspected.
I’m new to all this and everyone else seems to know what they’re looking at. ‘splain it to me using little words. ;-)
PDB is using the images of round expansion and penetration into ballistic gel to show that .45ACP (which many still uphold as the only appropriate round to fire from anything that isn’t a 7.62 or bigger rifle) doesn’t hold any real advantage over any other round, including the much decried 9mm.
Tam, in her true wisdom, is pointing out that in a pistol, it really doesn’t matter what round you pick, as long as it works well for you, you are accurate with it, comfortable with it, and can depend on it. She also points out, corectly, that if this were a real serious social situation, a rifle/carbine is the better choice of weapon anyway.
Mr. Du Toit is showing his inner fetish for slightly parted red lips.
“Thanks for confirming what I’ve long suspected.”
I’ll accept that.
I dunno, the temporary cavitation from the 357sig pretty much reinforces what I know about it, and why it (in a P229) and a P220 switch back and forth as daily carry.
Poking holes isn’t as nice as stretching them out once you get it in there, so the ladies I know tell me.
By the way, the width is more important than the length. (ahem)
The 9mm’s may go nearly as deep, but they aren’t making as big a hole.
Yes, they are, actually.
Any hollowpoint of a modern design, engineered to pass FBI protocols, is going to fairly reliably expand to between six and seven hundred thousandths, pretty much regardless of caliber. Most Gold Dot loadings from Speer, Golden Sabers, LE SXT loadings, Federal HST are all engineered to pass the same requirements in most bullet weights and calibers. Anybody who thinks that there is some magic place on the human body where a hit with a 165gr .40 cal GS would succeed but a 127gr +P Ranger would fail is betraying a total lack of knowledge of terminal ballistics.
It may be good for gun counter conversations, but wound ballisticians and forensics guys are going to laugh at you behind your back. Kind your mechanic would if you told him you liked the “V4″ engine in your Civic or your financial planner would if you told him you were going to follow the advice of the “Rich Dad Poor Dad” books…
Anyone want to buy a stainless Taurus 1911?
I see there’s no .357 Magnum listed…
While this is interesting, I’d like to see some high-speed footage so that we can also evaluate the temporary wound channels. Knowing what the permanent ones look like are great, but I suspect that the temporary ones are the ones that have the greatest bearing on whether you get a quick stop or not.
Tam is right on one thing–if you’re expecting trouble, carry a long gun. Remember, “A pistol is something you carry to fight your way back to your long gun, which you shouldn’t have left behind in the first place.” We carry pistols because they’re convenient, not because they’re good stoppers. Know the limitations of the tool.
The wispy red bits represent the temporary cavitation channel, which are pretty much irrelevant to wounding effects in projectiles that are traveling slower than rifle rounds.
Well, from what i see the biggest difference would be just as Tam said… whatever your comfortable with. Weight and recoil play a part in that and also just as everyone else said, capacity… I love my .45 GAP but the 9+1 capacity sux.. so i’ma just buy extra mags. i’m comfortable with the gun and i love to shoot it. Find a good weight for the gun and you should be fine.
A cop friend told me he’s seen people shot with everything from 9mm to .45 and he could never tell the difference in the holes. Seems to be an informal confirmation of the picture.
Well that looks, and sounds good but… I have used most caliber pistols on my ranch for coyote here in Ga. I can tell you with certainty that quality ammunition makes a difference. I can also tell you that there is a big difference between 9mm and 44mag. I have settled on 10mm because it downs a target faster than any other auto I have tried period. The 9mm is just downright inhumane as it takes longer for the coyote to pass. These ar not gelatin but real targets, I can’t tell you what gelatin does..
Good. Frackin’. Grief.
It doesn’t matter how many times this is stated — with pictures to back it up and everything — people still want to debate it with an utter lack of understanding of the reality of wound ballistics.
“What about ___ caliber?? I bet that would do a lot better!”
“Well when I shot this ___ out in a field, it did way more damage with a ___ than with a ____.”
Comments 16 and 17 (by Rabbit and Steven de Beste): You guys should just stop writing and go play with traffic. Seriously, let me spell this out for you as simple as possible: there are only two ways someone dies from a bullet wound: from a direct hit to the brain (or brain stem) or from a loss of blood. That’s it. There is no such thing as “stopping power” and, get ready for it, “temporary cavity” is a ridiculous point that means nothing. I can punch you in your stomach and make a bigger “temporary cavity” than a bullet would.
PDB and Tam, thank you for being voices of reason.
Thanks for posting the photo. Good stuff.
The 10mm caused the extinction of the Dinosaurs! So Nyah!
Kim du Toit wrote:
If the woman had a stroke, perhaps.
@AD – there is a really filthy joke about that…
Ha ha, I got it, because it’s flat on one side. Minutes save brain cells!
Question… How loud did the ballistic gelatin say “Ouch! I give up! Uncle! I’m done! Keep your wallet!” with the 124gr 9mm? How emphatic did the gelatin squeal the same with the 230gr .45? Cuz that’s important to me.
Mag capacity is not ‘bullshit’. I have read many stories of incidents that involved many rounds, or that were not resolved in one or two shots. Not all criminals give up after the first exchange of gunfire. I’ve seen some creepy videos of bad guys who tried to flank and continued to pursue their target even though they were being fired upon. With 16 rounds in my gun, I think I stand a much better chance of winning than the guy with only 6 or 8 rounds.
Don’t delude yourself that your incident is going to be a typical gas station robbery where the bad guy flees at the first sight of an armed citizen.
[...] disagree with that sentimment. Once you get above, say, 380 most arguments over stopping power are academic. I used to carry nines. Then a combination of magazine availability during the AWB meant most of my [...]
[...] Marketing. [...]
[...] Why is everyone getting the 9mm? Because of this. [...]
[...] if the rounds exceed the FBI penetration standards, than the caliber choice from there is just marketing. Share [...]
[...] on at Papa Delta Bravo there is an old blog post about the non-differences between various handgun calibers. In one of the comments [...]
[...] Stuff like this is why I think it’s time all the folks who run gun games should get over their unfounded dislike of the 9mm. [...]
[...] Ok, then. [...]
[...] attacker is, “It depends”. And honestly, when it comes to modern pistol cartridges, the arguments are mainly pointless. Share this:Similar ContentQuote of the Day – @JeremyAllan (8/24/2012) ( )Why I [...]