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{ 17 } Comments

1. Marco | September 24, 2012 at 10:16 am | Permalink

   :-O … IT’S ALL COVERED!!

2. Jason | September 24, 2012 at 10:22 am | Permalink

   * M&P 9mms don’t handle the most common weight of 9mm ammo accurately. And have a trigger so crappy everyone serious replaces it out of the box. Get a Walther PPQ. (Which in Europe, sells for more than the P30.)
   * The Ruger American is the new standard in budget rifles.
   * Winchester (actually FN) SX3.
   * Mossberg has always been the downmarket brand. Ithaca 37, Winchester 12, Browning BPS, then Remington 870 if you really must feed the evil empire.
   * Redfield and Vortex.
   * Indeed
   * Indeed
   * My ordering exactly.
   * Ruger SR1911 is GTG for half that. And I have Dan Wessons to compare it to.
   * Ok.
   * Can’t have too many spare mags.
   * PRO – best deal in optics.
   * Depending on the model, under $600. Even used, titanium & scandium aren’t cheap. And some discontinued models command a premium.
   * thebeltman.net. Because horsehide AND kevlar.
   * Crush it first, so no one will fish it out and try to use it.
   * Your weapon was made by the lowest bidder. On the other hand, if it’s cheap and the cops still don’t use it…
   * Worse, actually.
   * Worse, actually.
   * Flip a coin.
   * But… Tapco looks cool!
   * Or shoot irons like a man.
   * The public is driven by marketing and has no taste?
   * Ok.
   * Yes.
   * Federal 9BPLE.
   * Yes.

3. Tam | September 24, 2012 at 7:27 pm | Permalink

   “And have a trigger so crappy everyone serious^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H princesses replaces it out of the box.”

   Maybe it needs a RAM, if you’re dedicated to the (arguably pointless) technique of “riding the reset”.

   I’m glad Apex is making money, but after your first two nights of dry-fire, your factory M&P trigger should be far more shootable than the standard Glock unit.

   PPQs/P99s are fine pistols, but like the Steyrs and Caracals and FNs, they’re for gear queers who like to have a different pistol from everybody on the range to show what a cutting edge connoisseur of pistols they are, and that, like HK users, they don’t mind being told that “No, we don’t have any (mags/sights/holsters/spare parts) for your gun.

   Flip a coin to decide whether you want a Glock or an M&P, and then take the time you would have spent in endless internet wankery agonizing over what pistol to buy on gun forums, and spend it dry firing and at the range.

   Sincerely,
   Princess

4. Jason | September 25, 2012 at 12:59 am | Permalink

   There are kits that replace the sloppy hinged M&P trigger with a Glock style solid trigger. There are no kits to give a Glock trigger a hinge in the middle. And that doesn’t even get into the notorious accuracy and reliability issues on the M&P, or the inclusion of redundant thumb safeties and mag disconnects on many models. Look, the M&P was made by S&W specifically to undercut Glock in the LE market. Glock sells to LE almost at cost as a loss-leader/advertising to boost profitable civilian sales. Estimates are that a Glock costs about $100 to manufacture. That tells you a little bit how much the M&P must cost to make. And it shows. Your weapon was made by the lowest bidder ain’t a joke. It was designed to be the low bid, and to hit all the lawyer-iffic requirements foisted on cops to boot. It is the intersection of Suck St. and Fail Ave.

   Allow me to repeat: in 9mm, this is a gun that DOES NOT HANDLE THE MOST COMMON BULLET WEIGHT FOR THE CARTRIDGE ACCURATELY. They knew they were going to be selling mostly .40s to their true customer base, the 9mm was just an afterthought. Which had to be fixed in the aftermarket. So who’s the gear queer? A shooter who has to buy a new trigger and a new barrel and remove a safety just to bring it up to par? Or the shooter who buys a gun that’s GTG right out of the box?

   Blade Tech has a mold for the PPQ. I had Trijicons for it from Amazon two days after buying. (The front uses a standard Glock tool, and the rear doesn’t even require a sight pusher thanks to German over-engineering.) The P99 has been out for over a decade, and is actually one of the world’s most-cloned pistols, so mags are easy to find. My spares say “Desert Eagle” on the baseplate, but they’re all made by Mec-Gar anyway.

   I’m not the agonizing type. I’m a slut for handguns. I think at last count I have 4x as many Glocks as Walthers. Hell, I’ve got more S&W 3rd Gens than I do Walthers. And let’s not even mention my shameful SIG and CZ addictions. There are lots of good guns out there, no doubt. The M&P is just not one of them.

   Neither is the HS2000. But that’s another rant.

5. FormerFlyer | September 25, 2012 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

   I’ll print up a wallet-sized copy. I think you just saved me about 2 hours a week in conversation.

   Appreciated!

   FormerFlyer

6. Caleb | September 26, 2012 at 9:57 am | Permalink

   Glock sells to LE almost at cost as a loss-leader/advertising to boost profitable civilian sales.

   Since I know that this is untrue, I’m going to ask you to prove your bullshit with a citation from a reputable industry source.

7. Jason | September 26, 2012 at 11:21 am | Permalink

   “Glock: The Rise of America’s Gun” by Paul M. Barrett. In some cases, Glock provides guns at zero cost, straight trade for old guns. Since these are public agencies, with public budgets, the arrangements are no secret, and your demand for “reputable industry source” is a laughably transparent attempt to give yourself cover to dismiss any facts you don’t like. In 2005, the Topeka PD got 300 Glocks for $70,000. That’s $233/gun. Glock LE packs come with 3 magazines and night sights, and there’s usually a service & support contract worked into it as well, so it’s a particularly sweet deal. This is what S&W is up against, and they’re doing quite well, so their deals have got to be even sweeter.

8. caleb | September 26, 2012 at 12:37 pm | Permalink

   I know Paul personally. He’s a nice guy and a good reporter, but the whole “give them guns for free” was done back in the day when Glock was establishing its brand in the US.

   But I’ll tell you, why don’t you call Glock’s LE sales staff and ask them yourself. Oh, wait, you don’t have their phone numbers. Too bad.

9. Jason | September 26, 2012 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

   Oh, you have a phone number? Well, I stand corrected and awed at your connections. Maybe you should call them up and ask them to pretty please stop doing straight trades in 2012. Because it’s making you look like an idiot on the interwebs. I’m sure they’ll comply, since you’re so important and all.

10. caleb | September 26, 2012 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    Uh, Jason? The guns in the article you linked are provided by Nardis, a Glock distributor. Not Glock, INC. It even says that in the article.

    Reading is fundamental!

11. Terence | September 27, 2012 at 8:55 am | Permalink

    You’re missing something about AKs vs ARs.

12. Jason | September 27, 2012 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    Yes, I noticed that, and I was hoping you’d point it out, because it supports my point, and demonstrates that you can’t/won’t think things through: It means that Glock is generally providing those guns to their LE distributors at a price so low that they can afford to do trades and still profit. Glocks are not only cheap, they’re so cheap a middle-man can get his cut and still do deals like this. It makes sense. Glock’s capital costs have got to have been recouped years ago. Glocks should be getting cheaper.

    S&W makes the M&P even cheaper*, without the advantage of leveraging a design and production that’s 30 years old. It shows.

    * Unless you believe that they’re winning on quality. I urge you to call up your contacts at Glock and ask them whether they’re losing contracts on price or quality. See what they say. Please record the call. It should be amusing.

13. pdb | September 27, 2012 at 10:42 am | Permalink

    You’re missing something about AKs vs ARs.

    Good catch. Now that a decent AK is running $700+, and you can get a decent (missing a couple of features but serviceable for light use) AR for about $650, the era of the affordable AK is pretty much over.

14. Tam | September 27, 2012 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    Caleb, dude, you’re arguing on the internet.

    Worse, you’re arguing on the internet with a fanboi.

    He knows a lot more about the gun industry than you do, you sellout gunwriter shill whore, you!

15. Jason | September 28, 2012 at 12:50 pm | Permalink

    I’m not a fanboi, I’m a hater. Get it right. (I’m sure my wife would love it if I were a fanboi for just one particular gun. As it is, there’s only a handful of guns I don’t like, and if the makers fixed the issues with those guns, I’d have those too.) But you’re right about one thing: Caleb should avoid arguing on the internet. It’s too easy to link to things that disprove his assertions on the internet. He should stick to puffing his chest out in gun stores… beyond the reach of wifi or 4g access to all the shilling he’s done for various sub-standard guns over the years.

16. Dave | October 9, 2012 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

    Jason, that must be why most competitive Production class/ SSP shooters are using “inferior” Glocks and M&Ps. I just don’t understand why the best shooters in the world haven’t discovered they are shooting complete pieces of crap, and switched to PPQs.

17. TomcatTCH | October 12, 2012 at 11:26 am | Permalink

    I feel like a recovering fanboi.

    Glock 4th Gen will do that to a guy.

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1. Buying it All – WSIB | Not Clauswitz | September 25, 2012 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

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