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Short Notes On Carry In NC For The Convention Bound

No carry in establishments that serve alcohol for consumption on premises.

No carry with any alcohol in your system.

No concealed carry in banks. Open carry is technically ok, but is uncommon.

No carry at events where admission is charged to enter.

No carry at demonstrations or picket lines. (Which leads me to wonder if an open carry gathering is defacto illegal?)

No concealed carry of fixed blades. Folding blades have to be ‘reasonable’. (the law is extremely vague on this subject).

Machine guns are legally ‘destructive devices’, but some people have them. The law is vague, and some CLEO’s will sign off, some won’t. So leave your belt-fed at home, I guess.

Non-residents can purchase long arms from dealers and bring them home. Handguns will require shipment to a FFL in the visitors state.

Edit to add something rather important: In North Carolina, CCW’ers are required to inform police officers that they are carrying when they are approached by police in the course of their duties. I run with something like: “I’m required to tell you that I’m licensed to carry a concealed weapon, and I’m currently carrying.” Out of three times I’ve had to use it, one cop was indifferent, one was supportive, and another one made me put it in my trunk until he left. The “in the course of their duties” stuff means that if you say hi to a cop at the gas station, you don’t have to inform him that you’re carrying. If you get into an accident or are otherwise questioned, you should probably inform him before he finds out otherwise. Clear as mud?

Edit to add important update from Caleb: Per the NRA:

North Carolina State law prohibits the carrying of firearms in the Charlotte Convention Center, the Bojangles Coliseum, and the Time Warner Cable Arena. In addition, the Rules and Regulations of the Charlotte Convention Center prohibit the carrying of firearms in the Center. Pursuant to Time Warner Cable Arena policy, all individuals entering the Arena will be subject to a magnetometer security check.

Faggotry. I think we should continue to hold the convention in AZ until this bullshit gets sorted out here.

Yeah, we really are the California of the South. If it gets any worse, we’re moving to Texas. Oh wait, they can’t OC there! Har har!

Anyway, if you want further reading on the subject check out:

North Carolina Offenses Against the Public Peace.

2010 North Carolina DOJ Firearms Law Guide.

States with reciprocity agreements with NC.

{ 43 } Comments

  1. Tam | April 21, 2010 at 5:51 am | Permalink

    Texas actually has probably the second most byzantine set of gun restrictions south of the Ohio. You’d never realize it to hear Texans talk in internet gun forums, of course, but their gun laws are a lot more restrictive than most anyplace I’ve ever lived.

  2. Weer'd Beard | April 21, 2010 at 8:02 am | Permalink

    God that fucking sucks. NC should be ashamed when they make the reader from Massachusetts say: “REALLY???” So not only will I essentially not be able to carry ANYWHERE when I’m down there, but I also can’t carry my ka-bar TDI??

    Jesus, we have our share of problems in Mass, but at least once I got my carry permit (no small task) I’m able to…you know, CARRY.

    Texas should be ashamed of their laws as well!

  3. pdb | April 21, 2010 at 8:20 am | Permalink

    NC should be ashamed when they make the reader from Massachusetts say: “REALLY???”

    I’m sorry, I can’t hear you over the racket my giant stack of cheap high capacity magazines made when it fell over just now.

  4. Tam | April 21, 2010 at 8:31 am | Permalink

    It’s a sad state of affairs when your state’s gun laws suck so hard that you can only taunt Californians and Bay Staters. :p

  5. pdb | April 21, 2010 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    Don’t forget Guam!

  6. pdb | April 21, 2010 at 8:35 am | Permalink

    Actually, I can look down my nose at New York, New Jersey, Wisconsin, and Maryland as well as Massachusetts. But those are all lowly yankee states and we have to grade on a curve for dumbassery.

  7. Wolfwood | April 21, 2010 at 8:40 am | Permalink

    Thanks for the pointers; I’m actually going to OBX in a few weeks and this helps a lot! Do you have any idea how the “alcohol in your system” thing works vis-a-vis a hotel room or camp site? For example, if I have a few beers and come back to my hotel room and take my gun from my suitcase and put it in the nightstand, have I just screwed up badly?

    I haven’t been able to find anything, but I didn’t know if you might have a general (non-binding, not legal advice) sense.

  8. TheRock | April 21, 2010 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    Yeah, I reviewed the laws when I attended a Pat Rogers class down there. Sucktacular, especially when compared to Virginia.

    My only guess is that most of this stuff dates from the Jim Crow era.

  9. Kevin Baker | April 21, 2010 at 9:00 am | Permalink

    C’mon back to Arizona! We’ve got open carry, and very shortly Alaska carry – any non-prohibited person will be able to carry concealed without a permit, resident or visitor. And our Phoenix convention center is among those places where you can carry.

  10. Chris | April 21, 2010 at 9:01 am | Permalink

    “No carry with any alcohol in your system.”

    Only for concealed carry, though I am sure that they could get creative with charges for a open carrier.

    “No concealed carry of fixed blades. Folding blades have to be ‘reasonable’. (the law is extremely vague on this subject).”

    No, they have to be “ordinary pocket knives”, most LEO training guides reference this to being 4″ or less though I doubt there will be any problems for a 5″ blade.

    “Machine guns are legally ‘destructive devices’, but some people have them. The law is vague, and some CLEO’s will sign off, some won’t. So leave your belt-fed at home, I guess.”

    They are like that in most states too, the correct NC law term is “Weapon of mass death or destruction”, the law has an exception for people that have their tax forms. If you are from out of state bringing a NFA item in, you only have to get permission from the ATF not the locals.

    One thing you forgot, No carry in state run properties, this includes ABC stores (Liquor stores)

  11. pdb | April 21, 2010 at 9:04 am | Permalink

    For example, if I have a few beers and come back to my hotel room and take my gun from my suitcase and put it in the nightstand, have I just screwed up badly?

    Practically speaking, I do not believe you would be in serious trouble there. The PD isn’t going to breathalyze you before you go to bed. More likely it’s an extra candy for DA’s to throw at you if you did something like grabbed your heater while all liquored up and opened fire at some roof rabbits.

  12. ExurbanKevin | April 21, 2010 at 9:04 am | Permalink

    I think we should continue to hold the convention in AZ until this bullshit gets sorted out here.

    And in addition to Alaska-style carry, you can carry in bars and restaurants were permitted now.

  13. pdb | April 21, 2010 at 9:08 am | Permalink

    Thanks for the corrections, Chris.

    Sheesh. Anyone hiring in Arizona?

  14. Breda | April 21, 2010 at 9:09 am | Permalink

    So basically, NC is a lot like OH. Great.

  15. Alan | April 21, 2010 at 9:09 am | Permalink

    Wait, metal detectors to go into a convention center FILLED WITH GUNS!!!!

    WTF?

  16. TomcatsHanger | April 21, 2010 at 9:13 am | Permalink

    What one is used to becomes normal.

    We can’t open carry handguns at all. Zip, zilch. Accidentally flashing your concealed handgun is a bad bad thing.

    Outside of that, I don’t know what I’m missing. We can carry in vehicles without government permission, and carrying concealed to and from your vehicle is legal.

    The state license to carry concealed, the Texas Concealed Handgun License, is a bit spendy at $140 per 5 years, and the class is 8 hours the first time, and 4 hours every renewal after that, running between $70 to $150 for the first class, and somewhat less for the follow ups.

    Open carry of long arms is legal. Owning every variety of NFA devices depends on the location, big cities don’t like to sign off.

    No ammo restrictions or mag capacity stuff.

    Can’t carry if posted with a properly displayed 30.06 sign. These are rare as hell.

    Can’t carry if the business makes more than 50% of it’s profits from alcohol.

    Can’t carry in a few other stated areas, most of them require the same sign or it’s not enforceable.

    It’s what I’m used to, but it doesn’t seem as bad as being stopped by a generic “No Guns” sign.

    Or not being allowed to carry anywhere alcohol is served.

    Or not being allowed to carry in the bars that are attached to restaurants.

    We also have to inform law enforcement.

    I’m sure I missed something somewhere.

  17. Tam | April 21, 2010 at 9:48 am | Permalink

    Well, there’s the strange “revolver/pistol” thing on CCW permits, among other things…

  18. Mikee | April 21, 2010 at 9:52 am | Permalink

    So the bank near the checkout counters of the grocery store – how close can I come to it before I am violating the law?

  19. pdb | April 21, 2010 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    So the bank near the checkout counters of the grocery store – how close can I come to it before I am violating the law?

    You have to be actually in the area where the bank conducts its business. So if they’re in an alcove next to the main floor, you have to stay outside the alcove.

    ATM’s don’t count.

    I asked this during my CCW class and this was the answer I got, FWIW.

    So in this example, if you’re on the white or beige tile you’re fine. Brown tile = naughty.

  20. TomcatsHanger | April 21, 2010 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    Yeah, qualify with a wheel gun, and you are only allowed to carry a wheel gun. Use a semi, carry what ever you want.

    Better than some others who have the “Qualify with the exact gun you want to carry” or “Qualify with a specific caliber/round”.

  21. Alan | April 21, 2010 at 10:42 am | Permalink

    So, when I walk through the metal detector with all my blogging/podcast gear at the convention, am I gonna get a TSA style anal probe or just a wave through?

  22. Tam | April 21, 2010 at 11:29 am | Permalink

    Better than some others who have the “Qualify with the exact gun you want to carry” or “Qualify with a specific caliber/round”.

    …and worse than two of the three states in which I’ve lived (Georgia, Indiana) that require no “qualification” whatsoever. The third, Tennessee, lets you qualify with a single-shot deuce-deuce and open-carry five belt-fed fifty cals, if that’s what blows your skirt up.

  23. George | April 21, 2010 at 11:35 am | Permalink

    Apropos of nothing whatsoever…violating most of these is a misdemeanor.

    I’ve had three encounters while carrying. One guy took the gun until we were done, one didn’t care, and one let me go with a warning when he found out I was carrying. (Not sure if the two were related.)

  24. Caleb | April 21, 2010 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

    Aside: there really is a Bojangles Coliseum? That’s a real place and not a put-on, right?

  25. Justin Buist | April 21, 2010 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

    Don’t you need a handgun purchase permit to buy a crossbow down there too? Not that it’s likely to come up, but I’ve always found it strange.

  26. Drang | April 21, 2010 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

    Every time I start to bitch about how much the socialists in Washington State suck, someone reminds me that, for the most part, the gun laws here are pretty good. (Except no happy switch. And no SBR/SBS. And you can own a suppressor but not use it. Besides all those.)

  27. pdb | April 21, 2010 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

    Bojangles >>>>>>> Popeye’s >> KFC, FYI.

  28. Caleb | April 21, 2010 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

    It’s a restaurant? What the hell are you people doing down there?

  29. TomcatsHanger | April 21, 2010 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

    Grin. One could open carry any long gun they care to in Texas. I don’t think belt fed is a disqualifier to the open carry of a long gun.

    The semi/wheel gun thing is only for the shooting test. You can carry anything that is not a semiautomatic handgin if you do not have the semi-auto endorsement, single shot .45-70 contender, whatever, but you have to conceal it if it’s a handgun.

    If you took the class with a semi, you can carry every other handgun and semi-auto’s.

    The class is a pain in the ass. But it allows carry in those evil restaurants like Chilli’s or TGIF’s.

  30. The Freeholder | April 21, 2010 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

    Interesting. As a resident of NC with a concealed carry permit, I’d love to see the NRA quote me the part of state law that specifically makes carry in the mentioned venues illegal. I’m relatively familiar with that law, and folks, those names are not mentioned in the statutes.

    FWIW, this is the 2010 version of the NCDOJ’s handy-dandy treatise of NC gun laws: http://www.ncdoj.gov/Files/About-DOJ/Law-Enforcement-Liaison/2007-NC-Firearms-gun-Laws.aspx. It’s a PDF file, which makes for fun and easy searching. I don’t find one mention of Bojangle’s anywhere, and the only mention of Charlotte is the phone number of the ATF office there.

    I’m hoping to be there, but it may only be for a day visit. Unfortunate circumstances beyond my control (but worthy of a blog post when I get some time) have caused an financial restriction that I can’t overcome on short notice. If anyone wants to have a get-together, let me know. I’ll be the overweight, middle-aged white guy in jeans and a pro-gun shirt. :-)

  31. Chris | April 21, 2010 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    Freeholder, the venues are posted places with signs up and are also state property. That is enough to make it illegal in both cases.

  32. Geodkyt | April 21, 2010 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

    Rock — DING! Right on the nose. Just like that wonderful NC statute “Carrying to the terror of the public.” If three pants-wetting hoplophobes tell a cop they are frightened by you having a gun, you get the stainless jewlery. Of course, as originally intended, it was SUPPOSED to mean, “If three upstanding (i.e., white) citizens are frightened that your high melanin count is accompanied by a gun, you’re goin’ to jail, boy.”

    Caleb — Bojangles (LOUS-iana!) is a fried chicken chian highly praised by some who enjoy fried chicken. I find it mediocre, but my Minnesota raised mother has scarred me in regards to fried chicken. (One should not cook chicken in a PRESSURE COOKER, starting with the flour dusted chicken floating in cold oil. The chicken, um, squirts. . . and the bones wobble like a groitesque Gummy Bear, shorly before the meat slides off on to your lap.)

    Exurban — I can see the point in moving the NRA convention around. Maybe the next time the bring it to this are, they could hold it in Virginia. We don’t have Constitutional Carry, but we do have a decent Shall Issue law (includes non-resident issue and decent reciprocity), as of this summer we will be able to carry when going into such dens of drunken criminality as the Take-Out counter at Pizza Hut, and open carry is OK.

    *******************

    TheRock | 21-Apr-10 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    Yeah, I reviewed the laws when I attended a Pat Rogers class down there. Sucktacular, especially when compared to Virginia.

    My only guess is that most of this stuff dates from the Jim Crow era.

    ***********

    Caleb | 21-Apr-10 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

    It’s a restaurant? What the hell are you people doing down there?

    ***************

    ExurbanKevin | 21-Apr-10 at 9:04 am | Permalink

    I think we should continue to hold the convention in AZ until this bullshit gets sorted out here.

    And in addition to Alaska-style carry, you can carry in bars and restaurants were permitted now.

  33. Jeremy | April 21, 2010 at 7:46 pm | Permalink

    “I’m sorry, I can’t hear you over the racket my giant stack of cheap high capacity magazines made when it fell over just now.”

    You owe me a non coffee stained laptop and a trip to ear/nose/throat specialist to clean out my sinus cavity.

  34. chris | April 21, 2010 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

    “Rock — DING! Right on the nose. Just like that wonderful NC statute “Carrying to the terror of the public.” If three pants-wetting hoplophobes tell a cop they are frightened by you having a gun, you get the stainless jewlery. Of course, as originally intended, it was SUPPOSED to mean, “If three upstanding (i.e., white) citizens are frightened that your high melanin count is accompanied by a gun, you’re goin’ to jail, boy.””

    Course the law explicitly states that you have to actually go on or about public highways in a manner to terrify others with a gun AND others have to be terrified in order for the charge to actually stick.

    Simply carrying a gun openly does not meet the criteria for that charge and it IS taught in detail at the BLET academy to all LEOs in the state.

  35. Xrlq | April 21, 2010 at 11:02 pm | Permalink

    And to top it all off, several of the nicer hotels near the Convention Center prohibit guns on their premises.

  36. Geodkyt | April 22, 2010 at 9:48 am | Permalink

    Chris,

    The problem is that it’s a completely subjective standard. As was intended from it’s inception.

  37. xyankeeworkshop | April 22, 2010 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    So in this example, if you’re on the white or beige tile you’re fine. Brown tile = naughty.

    Screw the NC carry law discussion…what caliber for guys in blue dinosaur suits?

  38. The Freeholder | April 23, 2010 at 11:20 am | Permalink

    Chris, if the buildings are properly posted, then you’re correct and they are off limits. Stupid, but that’s the way the law works here. It’s also only a misdemeanor crime, so….

    However, I’m pretty sure the Charlotte Convention Center is not a State of NC building. Nowhere on their web site can I find a mention of such. Their employment app is not the same as a State employment app. And as a reluctant employee of said criminal enterprise, I can tell you the State of NC could never run a place as well as that particular convention center is ran.

  39. Jay G. | April 24, 2010 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

    Hmmm. Being able to carry in a restaurant vs. buying > 10 rounds mags?

    I’ll take being able to carry in a restaurant, thanks…

    Thanks for the primer, PDB. I’ll leave my guns in MA. Where I can carry them…

  40. Jones the Mighty | April 26, 2010 at 12:25 am | Permalink

    Heh, someone else who uses the word ‘faggotry’. :-D Extremely applicable in this case.

  41. Smith | April 29, 2010 at 8:36 am | Permalink

    Great post!
    I think that we truly are the “California of the South” because we have gun rights, but they are handcuffed by these vague laws. The “going armed in terror of the public” law in particular seems pretty lousy because it allows law-enforcement to arrest any armed citizens on a whim.

  42. Henktermaat | April 30, 2010 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    Makes me love Indiana more and more.
    1) no training to get a carry license
    2) License is good for OC or CC
    3) Airports, schools, hospitals, and govt. buildings are the only illegal places to carry
    4) You can carry in a bar while drinking, or a bank
    5) There is a lifetime license available for $120-ish
    6) No duty to tell an officer anything when pulled over

  43. Laughingdog | May 3, 2010 at 12:43 pm | Permalink

    Geodkyt,

    You’re a little off on the VA law stuff there. It’s even better than how you describe it.

    1. Open Carry is not just okay in VA; it doesn’t even require a permit.

    2. We’ve been able to carry in restaurants and bars (legally, they’re actually all restaurants as far as state law goes). But we were required to open carry in any place serving alcohol. What is new is that we’ll be able to carry concealed legally in July.